Curse

Pandora's box · Aug 28, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by One and Two

Do you really want to know how to own those smite group? I shall tell you the magical secret~

pst....invite a mesmer to your group.

There. Bam. One mesmer and anything else will take out the entire smite group.

Never played Magic the Gathering ehh?? The solution to someone who keeps countering your spell is... to counter his/her spells! A good smiter team should have a mesmer taking care of the opponents counter spells and a healer taking care of the smiters, just in case...

Kakumei · Aug 28, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Never played Magic the Gathering ehh?? The solution to someone who keeps countering your spell is... to counter his/her spells! A good smiter team should have a mesmer taking care of the opponents counter spells and a healer taking care of the smiters, just in case...

it surprises me that many of the people who enjoy guild wars have never played/didn't like m:tg

the two games are very, very similar in quite a few ways, which is one of the reasons i enjoy guild wars so very much

nearly all of the tactics that applied in magic also apply here which is nice

also, the daily articles that the m:tg team puts out really help you to understand the basics of game design, and even some far more advanced concepts

the people on these forums who complain about balance issues and whatnot would do well to go read some of those articles

Dac Vin · Aug 29, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pandora's box

Never played Magic the Gathering ehh?? The solution to someone who keeps countering your spell is... to counter his/her spells! A good smiter team should have a mesmer taking care of the opponents counter spells and a healer taking care of the smiters, just in case...

And what you do if they counter your spells? Well, maybe you join the "counter" fun?

Theos · Aug 29, 2005, 02:23 AM // 02:23

My new favorite anti smite strategy, as was mentioned, is to have an ally take one for the team and die and then fast cast well of profane (Me/N). Bye bye smite. That person is always resed, maybe its a dumb idea but it sure as hell works. Also once the warriors enter well of profane they seem to now want to run

so they die and we make more wells. So inaffect WoProfane can easily counter any below-average team, which could be quite a few :/

ElderAtronach · Aug 29, 2005, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Putrid will still beat well of profane to a single corpse. You'd need multiple corpses to get a profane off.

Axle_Fieshe · Aug 29, 2005, 02:52 AM // 02:52

there are more smite groups then normal (i have been in a lot of em) but it doesn't really matter since smite groups have a lot of faults, and only work well if u got a good strategy.

Bewb carcass · Aug 29, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by xChaoSx

i never said i needed a counter..im saying EVERYONe and there grandmothers is running them. Seeing that Anet likes diversity and most ppl do..its getting boring and lame fighting the same build over and over..we used to have spirit spammers, air spikers,conditions builds ect..no very few are actually using non smite builds..i.e boring

And the more people who whine about it........

Mark Twain · Aug 29, 2005, 05:27 AM // 05:27

yea, my friends and i made a new build (5 axe warriors, 2 healers, and 1 prot monk) we kicked ass. we won in the hoh at least 4 times. I think trying out new builds is the best way to go

Tuna · Aug 29, 2005, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Due to the recent influx of warriors I think we'll be seeing people actually use skills like soothing images

I was actually almost going to say that warriors seemed to be overpowered and were going to get a nerf but then I remembered that like half the necro + mesmer skills specialize in just that

Sagius Truthbarron · Aug 29, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

I've never been stopped smiting by a mesmer. Most teams make the dumb mistake of killing the monks - who aren't really doing anything but healing themselves - instead of the smiters.

Sure, if they freeze your Draw Conditions that can be a big pain, but stuff like Blackout and Backfire is such a joke.

xChaoSx · Sep 01, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

So onto week 2 and still 90% smite teams..i know alot of guilds and ppl are not playing tombs because of boredem and lameness of one build being run...anet realize yet or they to busy making pve areas?

Mysterial · Sep 01, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

And what are they going to do? Nerf smite? Do you really think all these people are going to magically start using a variety of different builds because the latest FOTM was nerfed? Of course not. They'll just pick a new one, and they'll all just use that.

Arenanet has the power to fix a lot of the problems in the game, but one thing they can't fix is the laziness/stupidity of the majority of its playerbase. That's just the price you pay when you have no monthly fee and all the players on the same server.

IxChel · Sep 01, 2005, 12:26 AM // 00:26

I started a topic to fix Ether Renewal if you'd care to comment. In short, for a smiter build, ER amounts to 5en per second of energy -- which is about 5x stronger than other energy recovery elites such as Energy Drain, Mantra of Recall or Offering of Blood (all of which average around 1en per second). This is without even considering the health regeneration...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Smiting is an El/Mo build that uses Draw Conditions / Reversal of Fortune to power Zealot's Fire, and uses Ether Renewal to run with effectively infinite energy. Toss in some Balthazar's Auras and Judge's Insights and you have the biggest damage machine in the game.

I think Ether Renewal is over-powered; but in general, I also thing that Smiting is a a wee bit overpowered. When my monk was lvl 15, I
was able to solo the "Undead Hordes" quest; without a smiting monk,
this quest is somewhat difficult with even 6 players. Sure smiting should
help somewhat against undead, but even if you didn't have the undead
2x damage, you might be able to pull it off. Every good farming build
is developed around smiting line. You'd think this would tell you something about skill balance? How is it that one class has both the
strongest healing and, subject to only a tad bit of debate -- top-of-the
line damage dealing ability?

Dzan · Sep 01, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

There is nothing overpowered about it; the only way its over powered is if you do nothing to counter it, but surprise, every halfway decent build is the same way.

Its quite easy to counter with simple skills every group should be bringing anyway (Diversion, Rend Enchantments etc) for utility. The reason they are predominant in the Tombs is not because they are so overwhelmingly good, its just that they are relatively easy to use and the "it" build of the moment. Just wait, a new power build will come out soon and e/mo smiters will become the Air Spikers of today.

Zeru · Sep 01, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Smiting is basically packing an absurdly amount of damage and steamrolling over teams. It can be countered, but it requires some intelligence, more than most pugs will have.

The good thing is that if you bring a heavy anti-smite you will fare very well because there are very few non-smiting builds out there, that are run by decent players. So you won't suffer much for doing something like bringing 2 mesmers to completely shut down the smiters and a monk or two.

If you don't bring anti-smiting stuff though, prepare to get run through. It is very lethal.

IxChel · Sep 01, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzan

There is nothing overpowered about it; the only way its over powered is if you do nothing to counter it, but surprise, every halfway decent build is the same way.

On face value, the skill is about 3-5x too powerful when compared to any other skill that does anything remotely similar. I don't care if humans can compensate for the unbalanced nature of the environment they are in -- the bottom line is that this skill is very much out-of-wack.

There are only three counters to this smiting build that I know of:

(a) well of profane -- unfortunately, against a good team you'll never
get this spell off. If you do, you got a team that wasn't prepared

(b) spam diversion -- unfortunately, your ratio here is 1 to 1.5,
you need the mesmer to spend almost full-time effort shutting down
one el/mo; and can probably hinder a second -- but not provide a
total shut-down; with 4-5 el/mo's you need at least 3 mesmers

(c) smite them faster than they smite you; so far, this is the best
counter I've seen yet -- and judging by the 90% smiting teams,
the most effective

If anyone has a good counter for a team of 3-5 el/mo -- by all means
post them. It's not like an el/mo is a air-elementalist damage dealer,
who requires a healer. They can cast Reversal of Fortune on each other;
then you factor in the health regain from Ether Renewal plus Aura of
Restoration -- and you've got a class /w a huge health regeneration to
go with overpowering supply of energy.

What was the "counter" for air-spike teams? Have 2 or so monks carry
protective spirit... that's not so bad. What's the counter here? Not just
one skill for a common class -- no, it requires you to completely re-skill
about half of your team.

Regardless if you can counter them; the primary build is just so overpowering that it prevents any sort of PvP diversity. Just look at the
numbers for energy regain;
Ether Renewal needs a fix

Maiyn · Sep 01, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Omg, pugs in the tombs lately....... + the crazy smite action = AHGGHHG

Seriously. I'm putting the game down until the update. I've had enough. >_<

Navaros · Sep 01, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuna

Due to the recent influx of warriors I think we'll be seeing people actually use skills like soothing images

I was actually almost going to say that warriors seemed to be overpowered and were going to get a nerf but then I remembered that like half the necro + mesmer skills specialize in just that

and let's not forget that warriors were almost never allowed into parties before this smiting trend started. generally speaking, everyone would treat you like a leper if you tried to join a party as a warrior

i say it's about darn time that warriors are finally being allowed to participate in Tombs parties

Zeru · Sep 01, 2005, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Why would you want to play in a random pug in the first place?

Sidenote: Since smite teams do not have much way of energy denial, air spike is actually pretty effective. Take along 3-4 Ele/Necros for rend, letting you shutdown ER/ZF somewhat if your timing is really good. Not saying it's great, but its definitely not a terrible idea. Also to note, protective spirit does NOT counter air spike. Fertile Season and energy denial does.

For anti-smiting stuff..here a couple of stuff to think about:
1-2 mesmers
Diversion, Mantra of inscriptions+signet of humility and some other random energy denial. MI+soh allows 100% locking of their elite iirc.
Ward against melee
Ward against foes
Ward against elements
Ward against harm (taking 30% damage from ZF is pretty fun with these 2 up)
Life Barrier (smite teams will generally have very few enchant strips)
Drain Enchant
Rend (multiple copies of both)
Healing Seed
Shielding Hands
Aegis
Water snares+iron mist

Bringing a normal build isn't going to cut it. Smiting will just run you over after the balance changes (before it really was easy to counter) unless you invest heavily in counters.

Second sidenote:
8 eles abusing ether renewal. Various /mos in there as well for healing/prot purposes. High sustainability and you can net several spike kills very quickly. Would be fun to try

Numa Pompilius · Sep 01, 2005, 08:01 AM // 08:01

IxChel: do you want people to /sign or are you guys still at the discussion stage? I'd definitely /sign alternative #2.